Bill Donohue a vile representation of Catholics. Stop your deflections. Deflections distract from the truth... It's called selfish-salvation
Bill Donohue... Stop your deflections. Small children were -rrr-appp-ed and -sssso-dddd-omized.
Here's a compilation of comments in the Washington Post about Bill Donohue, Benedict XVI and the priest pedophilia in the Catholic Church
"..others do it, too"
"..others do it, too"
"...nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah!"
"..it's OK for Christ's Church 'cause others do, it, too.
Except "others" don't claim to be "Brothers of Christ" and have an international criminal racketeering organization behind them to protect them.
The Catholic Church is the enemy against past and future victims as long as it allows this to continue, covers it up and allows the President of the Catholic League
to rub salt into victims wounds by denying this is going on, demonizing the victims, and stereotyping all gays as pedophiles.
HAVE YOU CATHOLICS NO SHAME?
Posted by: areyousaying | July 21, 2010 12:36 PM
My first "male-with-male" experience was when I was 14 and the other male was a "kindly priest" who befriended, groomed and brutally raped me.
http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_pedophiles_groom_victims
Even though I never asked for one filthy semen and blood stained dime from Donohue's "holy church", he still demonizes us victims and calls us "gold diggers.
May this son of Satan be reincarnated as a lonely, awkward and vulnerable 14 year old boy who is befriended, groomed and raped by one of his "Brothers of Christ" while church authorities look the other way and transfer Christ's monster brother to another parish to abuse again.
Donohue is a vile representation of Catholics. Like Baptists who fail to denounce Fred Phelps even though he uses their name in his church, few Catholics do nothing to denounce Donohues hatred and stupidity. In fact, there are many who high five him like my Muslim co-workers did on 9/11.
As long as this Church claims to be above civil law and its penalties for felony child abuse and felon racketeering by covering it up, it is indeed the business of the rest of us and we will not be silenced or go away no matter how many prayers to Mother Mary.
Posted by: areyousaying | July 21, 2010 12:20 PM
Donohue is part of the problem. They deflect the responsibility of the church to report these crimes by trying to make it about the media, gays, women, etc. That other people abuse children is not something people aren't aware of. However, other organizations do not cover up, hide, and ignore these problems, or if they do, the people that do the cover up are reviled and fired.
The RCC still keeps Cardinal Law on staff in the Vatican, after he spent years covering up the crisis. They talk about doing penance while hiring lawyers to defend themselves against judgments in court. They are not interested in protecting anything but themselves, and people like Donohue are a big part of that, by providing Catholics with excuses instead of actions.
Posted by: Sajanas | July 21, 2010 11:47 AM
fr sajanas:
>...The RCC still keeps Cardinal Law on staff in the Vatican, after he spent years covering up the crisis...
Let's not forget roger mahoney, who for years KNOWINGLY shifted pedophiles from one parish to another and didn't bother to tell the new parish about Father X's "little problem". mahoney should be arrested on pedophile charges, tried, convicted and imprisoned for life for it. He deserves NO retirement pay, NO benefits, as they should be directed to his victims, the children.
Posted by: Alex511 | July 21, 2010 12:59 PM
PUBLIUS30
Just wanted to make sure that people know the real facts, most were acts of pedophilia. To search out groupings and name them as post-pubescent as if the victim found it pleasurable is wrong - that is exactly what the RCC wants people to think. Most of the abuses were of pedophilia, that is fact.
The John Jay report came out before most victims came forward. And as we later find out, many were small girls too.
How is John Jay to know the facts when they went to the diocese for data and better yet, Donehue? They have no idea of the real classification of victims unless they involve in non-religious groups that help victims.
In those groups you will find the majority were victims of pedophilia. Another important note as I had mentioned much earlier below, had the church allowed alter girls and had parents allowed their daughters to be alone around priests, the lion share would have been girls by the same percentages as the rest of society.
Statistics only works when you don't shape it to some agenda and take all data into place. ie. When applying abuses, what % of males and females available. Then apply that to your abused.Likely you will find that a higher percent were girls. (not higher numbers, higher percent)
Just wanted people to know the truth. The bigger truth is that the Vatican is responsible for the worst crimes of all, the cover ups.
Because of these cover ups, many children victims later committed suicide and others mentally ill. Instead of the vatican writing documenting instructions for cover up and had they done what was good and compassionate - these children would have lived their potential instead of destruction. That is the issue that needs to be addressed, not all these other deflections, Donahue included.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 2:09 PM
Donohue calls abuse victims "gold diggers"
http://www.google.com.mx/search?q=Donohue+calls+abuse+victims+gold+diggers&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=H9c&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=-yRHTOK9LYKingeVn6X1Aw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQqwQwAA
Donohue links homosexuality to pedophilia:
http://www.google.com.mx/search?q=Donohue+on+homosexuality&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Kqx&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=ZyVHTMqWB4SlnQely4zNBA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCMQqwQwAw
Donohue denies Catholic child abuse"
http://www.google.com.mx/search?q=donohue+denies+Catholic+child+abuse&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Srx&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=rSVHTOS_H4OBnQfjtqSJBA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCcQqwQwAw
Posted by: areyousaying | July 21, 2010 12:53 PM
Bill Donahue has a rude awakening coming, along with those he defends and shills for. The Vatican and its global empire are about to come crashing to earth because they have much more to hide and fear than the currently unfolding scandals and debacles. Certain ancient lies have way of coming back to haunt those who have gained so much wealth and power because of them.
Finishing the Mysteries of Gods and Symbols
http://www.sevenstarhand.org/
There are far bigger lies than those told about why they methodically rape children and then conspire, as an international cabal, to hide and protect the perpetrators. Remember the saying, "The truth will set you free." Only the truth about certain ancient deceptions can prevent lies about God from being used to prey upon children (and others) and afterwards cow legal authorities from impartially performing their duties. Justice requires the truth...
Posted by: SevenStarHand | July 21, 2010 12:32 PM
Hail Mary, full of grace, let's blame it all on the gays ... yada ... yada ... yada
Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | July 21, 2010 10:15 AM
Bill Donahue is a sick, sick man. His slavish devotion to a religious corporation has twisted his mind so that he is incapable of seeing a reality that is staring him in the face.
We could feel sorry for him if he wasn't actively aiding and abetting child abuse with his delusions. But he is. Like any other addict in denial, he needs to face the consequences of his actions and learn to see what his addiction has done to his mind.
Posted by: bigbrother1 | July 21, 2010 1:49 PM
Donohue has been like this for decades. He is a racist, a homophobe, and has drunk the Kool Aid right from Rome. He is all that is sick and twisted from this Church. He defends rapists and defends the priests and bishops who defend rapists.
He would have fit right in with the Nazis as they burned Jews alive, burned homosexual people alive, and tortured people. He would have justified their behavior. He is a very sick man and it is a crime that people actually listen to him.
When they're this adamant about their anti-gay feelings, I always wonder who the man is that they're sleeping with.
Posted by: Renshaw | July 21, 2010 4:21 PM
quote: "So, if the Catholic Church would do a better job of screening out Homosexuals .....Keep the homos and perverts out, keep more children safe!"
Let's start with the Pope and his boy toy Mgsr. Georg! That love affair has been going on for decades now. It would be wonderful if they just admitted their love for each other and kissed each other on the steps of St. Peter's.
You want to kick out all the gay clergy? No one would be left to say mass!
I have absolutely nothing against gay clergy. In fact, I prefer gay men to be priests.
The priest who abused my son twenty four years ago was kicked out of the priesthood three years ago. He's now married and has a twin boy babies. He was and is as straight as an arrow, he just likes little boys!
Posted by: Renshaw | July 22, 2010 10:35 PM
------------
"No pedophilia crisis" says Catholic League
According to Dr. William Donohue of the Catholic League, the Catholic Church does not have a "pedophilia crisis." His opinion is contradicted by numerous court documents, statements of the U.S. Bishops, the Vatican, and Pope Benedict XVI, each of whom have condemned the pattern of covered-up case of clerical pedophilia. So if a pedophilia crisis is clear to these officials and to more than 60 million American Catholics, why does Dr. Bill continuously repeat that there is none?
To be sure, he admits to a problem of sexual abuse among Catholic clergy, but in a advertisement published in the New York Times (March 30, 2010), Donohue argues that ... "all along it's been a homosexual crisis." Citing the exhaustive study out of John Jay College in New York, Donohue notes that "Eighty percent of the victims of priestly abuse are male." The male-with-male character is sufficient to change pedophilia into homosexual relations in Donohue's way of thinking. On CNN (Rick's List, March 31, 2010), Donohue summarized this position in his unenviable style: " ...yes, there's a connection between homosexuality and sexual abuse of minors...They can't keep their hands off the boys, don't you get it?"
Perhaps this makes sense in some universe based on locker-room logic. But counting the frequency of male-with-male relations is not the same as scientific study of homosexual behavior. Since Donohue took his doctorate in the social sciences, he strays beyond his field of competence when defining the motives for sexual abuse. Such analysis properly belong to fields like psychology. You wouldn't want a hair-dresser's definition of a "split end" to be applied to a football coach's plays for a "split end" and social science's terms do not always apply to the behavioral sciences. As noted by Andrew Sullivan, Donohue confuses sexual orientation with sexual abuse. Educated discourse among Catholics deserves more sophistication, I think, and clarity of definitions is a good place to begin.
Sexual orientation, which is considered to manifest itself with the on-set of puberty, is about whom you seek to love. "Love" here is more than a physical act, but includes search for companionship, understanding, and support. These qualities are sought by both homosexuals and heterosexuals. The search may go badly, with exploitation and meanness intruding - for both homosexuals and heterosexuals - but the orientation is realized between mutually consenting adults.
Pedophilia, on the other hand, is about control of an adult person over a minor. It is clear from the John Jay data on clerical abuse that most cases (73%) took place before the minor turned 14, with more than a fifth (22%) being perpetrated on victims younger than 10 years of age. Children 13 or younger seldom function sexually as adults. But because the legal age of a minor includes all those under 18, the sociological numbers include many teenagers who approximate adulthood. The John Jay numbers show that the frequency of abuse diminishes as the minor grows older. Donohue confirms this fact by writing in his July 13th column: " ... if some guy tried to kiss me when I was 17, I would have flattened him." Presumably, the more the victim becomes adult, the less likely it is that the sexual predator can control them. And because such control is at the heart of pedophilia, sexual exploitation of children has been roundly condemned by the Catholic Church.
The vulnerability of the Church in this sordid mess lies principally in a pronounced reluctance to confront predators or take significant action to separate them from ministry. While I have little doubt that Dr. Bill want to end sexual abuse in the Church as much as I do, his faulty analysis is problematic because it might perpetuate the crisis. How can you adopt the proper remedy against what Pope Benedict called "the filth of the Church" unless you have a proper diagnosis? "Flattening" people with your fists may resolve the problem for Dr. Bill, but I doubt it is feasible approach for universal Catholicism.
I think there is an important difference between the abuse in pedophilia and homosexual orientation. Confusing them and using bludgeoning oversimplifications ultimately trivializes both of them. These, however, are not trivial issues.
By Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo | July 20, 2010; 9:08 PM ET
Mr. Stevens-Arroyo - You have conveniently skewed the data provided by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. 80.9% of the victims were male; the majority of the victims (77.4%) were between the ages of 11-17 so it is misleading to just state the majority of the abuse began before the age of 14.
Just for the record, Pedophilia is the definition for sex with pre pubescent children; post pubescent minors are identified as epheophiles.
If 81% of the victims were male between the ages of 11-17 I don't know what else you could possibly call this except homosexual activity.
Furthermore, abuse occurs in all walks of life within the secular world with females being the vast majority of victims.
The Protestant Church has a somewhat highter rate of abuse than the Catholic Church. These statistics come from information gathered from insurance companies.
Other religions have also not been immune to abuse allegation such as the Orthodox Jewish community.
I'll leave all of you with this one thought. Despite the absolutely vicious attacks against the Church because many don't like the moral postions of the Catholic Church, she will go on. The Catholic Church is not holy because of its members who sin like every human being does, it is holy because Christ is the head of the Catholic Church. It belongs to Him. He established it more than 2,000 years and promised to be with her until the end of time.
Posted by: mrsm117 | July 21, 2010 5:13 PM
it is holy because Christ is the head of the Catholic Church. It belongs to Him. He established it more than 2,000 years and promised to be with her until the end of time.
Posted by: mrsm117
And this is what Christ had in mind?
A time honored tradition of the old men of his clergy helping themselves to the bodies of little boys?
If so, I don't like your version of "Christ" very much. In fact, if I were him, I would change my last name because of you.
Posted by: areyousaying | July 21, 2010 6:01 PM
VOTE: Remoove The "Sovereign Nationa STATE" status Of the Vatican via U.N. et al. Also Remove All "TAX EXEMPT" Status's From The R.C.C. in U.S.A. Forever. NO Excuse! etc..
There is; The BUDDHISTs Churches, Monastery, Have little [Reported/Complaints] or Unknown Pedophilia incidents therein; likewise:
There is; The HINDU Churches, Ashrams, Not Manu Child Rape Cases,
There is; The JEWISH Churches Yeshiva, Not Many Child Rape Cases
Ther is; The iShlami Churches Madrasas, Not Many Child Rape Cases,
There is; The CHRiSTIAN Churches (none Cathoholics) Sunday Schools, (Some Child Rape cases & infidelity, not many : B
There is the Greek/Russia Orthodox Churches, Schools, Not many Complaints. BUT
but There is; The Roman-CATHOLIC Churches Parochial Schools System/INSTiTUTION and they Have Too Too Many VICTIMS, all around The World;
REVEALation: The Fact That the Roman Catholic Church/Parochial Biz folk committed such "MASS PEDOPHILIA CHILD RAPES" or Atrocities entitles the Roman catholic Church gets/wins The
GUINNESS-BOOK Of Church-Based Pedophilia & CHILD RAPES" cases on Earth & History.! Note: HISTORY is OUR "JURY" (Judge & Witness). Soo, NO, Nada, Excuse.
It is Tantamount To Hitlers Mass Murders. Raping 1 or 2 victims is understanding but mass Raping 10's Of Thousands????
WHEREFORE: The R.C.C. Is "Guilty As SIN"!& Curse, of Mass-Systematic Child Abuse. NO Exceptions nor Excuses plkeazzaaa.
A {RCC] perpetrated Child Abuse HOlocaust, aye.
Talking Blue in the face or cunningly Using Nice Sounding Names to Abusing the TRUTH (opposite Myth) of the Case via Church Leaders & their "WORD MERCHANTS" is not Going To Heal Anything. TODAY or Next 10,000 Years!
Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 21, 2010 5:45 PM
The problem in the Catholic Church is not homo-sexual priests; the problem is repressed, self-loathing homo-sexual priests, who are weirdly maladjusted. They should not be around children, and they should not be counselling or advising adults on anything.
From the very top, down, this is the ultimate Catholic problem.
Cahtolic homophobia destroys lives and families, and often leads to suicide, often among teens.
Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | July 22, 2010 3:42 PM
Stop the abuses. Stop the deflection.
Stop denying victims of lost lives.
What have the catholics done to help victims? Don't insult me with therapy. And if you do, MOST were denied if the crimes were too severe.
I'll tell you what catholics do. Their donations pay for lobbyists to stop laws that would expose the pedo, expose the cover ups and deny victims civil rights. Great job catholics, you just joined the cover up effort to destroy the victims of already destroyed lives.
You chose evil over over those who need help. You deny by not staying on the other side of the road ignoring those harmed, but actually walking over and pouring vinegar in their wounds.
You are shameful.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 12:39 PM
mrsm117,
Now you're misrepresenting the John Jay Report. The age group with the highest amount of abuse is 10-14 according to the John Jay Report. Homosexuality takes place only between two consenting adults. No boy between 10 and 14 is ever an adult consenting to sex. Only you and Donohue are willing to call a 10 year old boy a gay man. You religious people have some really rotten views of children. You're certainly in the right church.
Just for fun, could you provide the "information gathered from insurance companies"?
Lastly, your church is dying. Because the evil beliefs and practices that it has thrived on for 2,000 years are no longer being tolerated by modern man. By that I mean religious wars, hatred and fear of women, scorn and disdain for children, persecution complexes, homophobic men wearing dresses and petticoats, and last but not least, people eating flesh and drinking blood.
Jesus Christ had absolutely nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
Posted by: SarahTX2 | July 22, 2010 3:42 PM
Posted by: mrsm117
Just for the record, Pedophilia is the definition for sex with pre pubescent children; post pubescent minors are identified as epheophiles.
If 81% of the victims were male between the ages of 11-17 I don't know what else you could possibly call this except homosexual activity.
---------------------------
Oh, really? Are you saying that makes it all better because they're hebephiles instead of pedophiles?
Are you saying the "homosexual activity" of the male victims between the ages of 11-17 was voluntary and their idea? Are you saying 11-year old boys seduced priests?
Are you saying the all victims were complicit?
Are you defending Donohue and saying that you are a lame, closed-minded apologists for your Church's vile crimes against children?
Posted by: areyousaying | July 21, 2010 5:58 PM
This writer is disingenuous by ignoring Homosexuality in the Priesthood. In Miami 11 out of 12 Churches have Gay Pastors--today.
Our seminaries were polluted with Homos. Witness the book “Goodbye (Heterosexual priestly candidates) Goodmen” by Michael Rose.
Last year a Gay Cardinal in charge of all things Priestly formation was caught by the Italian press soliciting homo sex.
The ignorance lies in our congregations not knowing that the infiltration of Gay priest led to sexual abuse and liturgical abuse. It is no mistake that the Tabernacles are hidden all over our churches. Look no further than the Gay Pastors (closeted) that moved a foundation of our faith out of sight.
Posted by: conrad031 | July 22, 2010 8:44 AM
Catholic votes count during elections, get it?
Why people still refer to the John Jay report daunts me. This was a report commissioned (paid for) by US bishops. They were only following the rules. Most data was gotten from the diocese, which by the way most cases were not reported to the diocese since it is a well known fact they continue to cover it up. Even today, most victims will not come forward, the embarrassment. In fact John Jay will tell your their data of child molesters is well underreported - there are many more child molesting priests (in some diocese of 20%).
These were predominately elementary school children. Had alter girls been allowed and had parents, at least most parents knew better to allow their daughters to be with men, then expect the volumes of girls to well outnumber males. Pedophilia is a crime of control. In fact pedos are still active in their 70's and 80's, fact. Another fact is that in states as NY, senators protect the pedos because they are catholic. Catholic votes count during elections, get it?
In some states, pedophilia is defined as it should be - under the age of 17. The true definition of pedophilia is crimes against a child who has not fully developed sexually, physically and mentally.
Then again, the RCC has their zombies who care less of the victim, those on selfish-salvation trips, and repeat deflections told them. We need to forget gays as the problem, that women can't be priests (RCC likes to create deflections that are controversies), everyone else did it (now how childish is that), and so forth. The RCC loves these because it denies the real truth.
What is the real truth? Many victims committed suicide and others permanently mentally ill due to the abuse and the church lobbies to stop laws that would expose the pedos, expose the cover ups and deny victims civil rights. These are the truths, period.
Why did victims take so long? Just as we have learned about the 29 year old woman Jaycee, abducted at age 11, she could have escaped or asked for help - yet she didn't. Why? It was not the physical captivity, but a mental one. And we have seen this over and over again. The same with other acts of pedophilia. Pedophilia, severe trauma, causes a physical change in the childs brain development. Some say, if not found, Jaycee may have been 50 or 60 before coming forward.
Now imagine the fears of a child, never able to concentrate again, who sees men dressed in black each day in schools and churches. What effect do you think this might have? Now imagine the child repeatedly threated from telling anyone. The child knows they mean business.
Justice denied by the worst criminals of all - those who help deflect from the truth and do not demand justice for these victims of lost lives. Just like the pedos helpers,
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 8:46 AM
Bernard Law should be in jail - not in Rome working for the Vatican.
It really doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't matter that other people/organizations have had this problem. It doesn't matter what you personally think of the RCC.
The only thing that matters is that the RCC has (for decades or longer) systematically and purposely covered up the abuse and ensured that it would continue. They made every attempt to cover it up, and continued this practice well into this millenium (has it ~really~ stopped?).
Now that the world is outraged the RCC is doing it's best to ~appear~ to be taking the problem seriously - but choosing to retain Bernard Law (and giving him a nice promotion to Rome) just underscores how out of touch the RCC is about this whole issue. Bernard Law should be in jail - not in Rome working for the Vatican.
Whatever name you choose to assign this abuse (I choose pedophelia myself) is irrelevant. The problem is DIRECTLY tied to ~how~ the RCC "handled" this problem - and the lack of justice speaks volumes.
Posted by: joeAgnost | July 22, 2010 9:15 AM
My full comment was never published - especially my challenge to Mr. Stevens-Arroyo regarding his statistics and the statistics by the John Jay College of Criminial Justice. Why post only part of my comments. 80% of the abuse was with males betweeen the ages of 11-17. Priests having sex with males is homosexual activity any way you look at this.
Going to post this????
Posted by: mrsm117 | July 22, 2010 9:56 AM
To me, Bill Donohue aptly illustrates the premise of Dr. Peter Hull's Book, "The Peter Principle." The main premise of the book is based on this thought: In any Hierarchy, people are promoted to the level of their incompetence. It doesn't make any difference if it is in government, the military, the private sector or the Church, people naturally rise to the level of their incompetence, where they prove themselves to be so incompetent that they are no longer promotable. Lucky for every Catholic alive that Bill is not ordained into the Catholic Priesthood, because we can all rest assured that he'll never be voted in as Pope in the next conclave! He has risen to the level of his incompetence and he's doing an excellent job!
Posted by: JeannieGuzman | July 22, 2010 10:38 AM
@mrsm117
You keep ignoring the REAL issue - how the RCC has covered up the abuse for decades!
The abuse is horrid - there is no question. The way the RCC chose to deal with the issue is the real crux of this issue. Call it a homosexuality problem, call it a celebit problem... it doesn't matter.
Until the RCC starts taking the issue seriously they will remain the enemy of rational, loving people. To start they could produce Bernard Law and have him face the authorities.... but it won't happen because I don't think they actually care. They only care about keeping power with the RCC.
Posted by: joeAgnost | July 22, 2010 10:47 AM
Note: --- The writer and few posts are ignoring the larger crimes, not pedophilia, but the cover ups by the RCC to protect their reputation over the lives of children. Had these children received help, many would not have committed suicide and others not mentally ill due to the abuses. The cover ups were the worst crimes of all. We find documents by the vatican that demand the silence be kept for purposes of hiding. They now pretend to act as if the silence was to protect their investigation, wrong. It was to protect their reputation over the damaged small child. Folks with common sense will tell you they lie when they say that keeping the silence does not mean not reporting. Reporting alone denies the demand of silence, see now? Big joke, and the joke is on those that believe them over the children rrrrappppped and ssssssoddddomized. This organization committed, crime tactics, the worst offenses of all and now twisting words and meanings to find an escape root. Please do not stoop so low to believing them and helping them by repeating their foolish nonsense, you are only damaging the children victims again. Is that christian?
They claimed they cared of children, yet they did nothing to help the child. All the documents were of cover up content. Likewise, Ratzingers letter of 2001, was one of the worst obstruction to justice yet. Not only did he refer all bishops to early "secret" documents, but he also demanded all cases be "extinguished" until the child reaches adulthood plus 10 years. Why? Because statutes of limitations in the largest states as NY now protects the pedo, the cover ups and denies the victim's civil rights. How much more damage to victims can this church impose on victims? Yes, even more. They sway dishonest lawmakers with promises if they stop laws that would let us know who the pedos are and stop the child victim from getting justice again. Imagine that, they pay lobbyists to destroy victims again.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 10:50 AM
Now add this, they now claim that therapist in the past didn't know these pedos would do it again. Wrong, there are many documents to the contrary with exception. The exception were therapist who were also priest, this is the group that twisted logic. Pedophilia, bank robbery or violence against individuals - most therapist would NEVER guarantee those that committed these crimes wouldn't do it again. The RCC may fool some, but not the rational thinkers. Ignore the blaming on therapists, you all know the truth now.
Think about this for a moment, of all crimes - wouldn't you do everything possible to make sure a pedo wouldn't strike again? A bank robber, well we would incarcerate to punish and prevent, not rely on therapy alone. A child rapists? Good folks just wouldn't take the chance. And wouldn't it have been caring for the child if responsible parents were alerted to watch their children and know who to trust?
Stop the deflections, don't repeat what they tell you.
In fact with all those documents to keep the secret and their constant "pretend" to care for children, then why wasn't there a document that stated; get the child immediate medical attention, tell the parents so they can protect their child and tell authorities to protect other children. There wasn't simply because this organization cared for their own reputation over the lives of small helpless children.
All you are hearing are their excuses to bail out of the worst crimes imaginable, please do not reduce yourselves to their level. Don't help them by repeating nonsense. It wasn't gays who raped and even if that were the case, by along stretch, it wasn't gays who committed the worst crimes of all - the Cover Ups.
And finally, the reason many never came forward until much later in life was due to the mental illness caused by the abuse. In fact the more violent the pedo, the much longer in life it takes to come forward - some 50 or 60 years. And you want to let this group off the hook?
Keep it simple, simply post "Stop your deflections. Small children were -rrr-appp-ed and -sssso-dddd-omized. Many children later committed suicide and others mentally ill due to the abuses. That is the issue and it starts and ends there." Ignore their denial of women priests, that was a mere deflection to cause controversy so to minimize the real crimes. They have lots of deflections to separate people into clusters to ultimately distract from the real issue at hand. Just repeat what is in quotes and stay focused.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 10:51 AM
One thing we know for sure is that we usually caught pedos in our public schools and bus drivers, we've been hearing this on the news forever. The positive thing here is that teachers have always been heroes for blowing in pedos - who wouldn't. Then again priests were heroes for protecting the pedo. All reports, including the Hofsta one, refer to older high school children. In fact they include "you look nice in that dress, Mary" as a form of abuse, read the report. It was rare for a public school to allow violent acts of pedophilia do go unpunished, most were let go. Thanks to the teachers, many women who cared for children first.
Now we also never heard of goons coming down from the public district office to threaten the child, and family, that they would get kicked out of the school district if they told anyone. Then again, the RCC did. In fact excommunication was the threat. Image your grandparents feeling the effects of a threat as that, it's like being sent directly to hell.
Keep the issue focused and ignore their deflections. Tell your lawmakers that you want complete justice and exposure.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 11:05 AM
I would certainly say Cardinal Bernard Law made terrible choices in managing priests of his diocese, which included some of the most awful of abusers. That is certainly an example of placing too much faith in the ability of therapy to "cure" pedophilia. He was right to resign!!! Whether he personally broke the law (for instance, a "mandatory reporter" law etc), I don't know offhand, I'm not aware that he did--if he did in fact then I readily agree he should face up to that. But, if his disastrous mistakes didn't actually break a law himself, then on what grounds do you want to throw him in jail? As to being given other duties in Rome, or being honored with the honors with which all Cardinals are normally honored, let him do all this with modesty and a real sorrow for the people in his diocese who were harmed and the harm that came to the Church. He remains a capable person who can serve and work in the Church. He's not in charge of a diocese now. Nobody has any illusions about how seriously things went wrong under his leadership of his diocese.
The US Church's effective response to witnessing and suffering these grave mistakes include not only apologies and prayer, and making deep sacrifices in order to pay huge fines and settlement costs, but the formalization of canonical penalties for child sexual abuse, "safe environment" programs enforced in most if not all US dioceses, and in the US and other places "Numerous bishops ... stating that there is now "zero tolerance" for priests who sexually abuse: they will be dealt with by civil and ecclesiastical law and will be removed from ministry." (http://www.usccb.org/comm/blanchette.shtml)
Posted by: elizdelphi | July 22, 2010 3:24 PM
Ignore ELIZDELPH.
Using foolish deflections. The issue is cover ups of the rraapppes and ssssooodddomies of small helpless children.
Bye ELIZDELPHI, good people don't like those as you, you're evil.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 11:10 AM
"Sexual orientation.... is about whom you seek to love."
What nonsense. It is not about love but about whom you have sex with. The Christian message is to Love your neighbour, but that does not mean having sex with your neighbour. Your idea of love is perverse.
Over 80% of the sex abuse here has been man-boy and only a fraction of priests are homosexual: that seems pretty conclusive and I do not need a Phd in science to figure that one out.
Control and sex are 2 very different things. You would not have the contol here if it were not for the sex. Being an authority figure is just an easy street for sex. Why not just admit that, inspired by ancient Greece, you are in favour of legalising man-boy love as are most homosexuals today.
Posted by: krasnit | July 22, 2010 11:14 AM
Weak, pompous defenders of the Church's history of clergy buggering boys and it criminal cover up try to distract us from the real issue which is mandatory requirements for reporting suspected abuse to civil authority.
It's more important for them that the Church not bow to civil law while turning their backs, once again, on past and future victims.
Crying "others do it, too" and blaming homosexuals and the victims is right out of Catholic Goebbels playbook.
Posted by: areyousaying | July 22, 2010 12:13 PM
2 words for you: Bernard Law.
The RCC gave him a promotion... he deserves jail.
That alone signals that the RCC aren't serious about this.
Posted by: joeAgnost | July 22, 2010 12:33 PM
They all, including Bill, Like to refer to the John Jay study, in justifying that it is an homosexual problem, and there is no doubt that there were, and are, many homosexuals in the clergy (just look at those red shoes and all that lace)
What they don't tell you is that the John Jay researchers specifically say, that it is not a gay problem, it is an undeveloped sexuality.
They claim to be good Catholics, but they LIE to support there prejudice. They cherry pick the evidence.
Just look at Maciel. Not only did he abuse seminarians, he kept assorted wives and mistresses, and then sexually abused his children. And this was a "conservative" Catholic.
Posted by: truecatholic | July 22, 2010 12:34 PM
krasnit
What a big liar you are. You Catholic bigots wonder why there is so much Catholic-bashing in the world, when all you live for is to hunt down gay people and get rid of them by any means possible.
Being gay is a personality trait which has as one aspect, same sex attraction.
If you do not want gay priests, them subject ALL priests to investigation of their private lives, including, and especially, the Pope, and then kick them out, if there is a suspicion that they might be gay.
Adults having sex with children is not being gay. Straight people do that too.
Just blame all your problems on gay people and then everything will be solved.
If you hate gays, please do not justify it with God's blessing. It is some weird perversion inside of your own heart; and you should own up to and assert it, truthfully as your own persona prejudice.
The Catholic Church's witch hunt against gay people not only destroys individual lives, it destroys whole families. And it is even more hypocritical when it is plain and easy for anyone to see that the church is run by repressed, self-loathing gay men, going right up to the VERY TOP.
Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | July 22, 2010 12:56 PM
DANIELINTHELIONSDEN
Ignore those who deflect. Healthy and reasonable thinking people don't blame gays, they blame pedos and mostly the RCC's cover ups, the worst crimes.
These are deflections to take people away from the real damage caused to small children by the cover ups. Had the church instead done what was good and compassionate, and helped the child instead of their own reputation first, as the pope too, the child would have likely lived to their potential. Instead, many children later committed suicide and others mentally ill due to the abuses.
Deflections distract others from the truth, making those who help by repeating them as evil. It's called selfish-salvation.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 1:09 PM
Stevens-Arroyo (S-A) massively distorts - I assume deliberately - the argument made by Donahue in the Catholic League advertisement. S-A provides the following quote from Donahue: "Eighty percent of the victims of priestly abuse are male" and then suggests that Donahue argues from this quote that "[t]he male-with-male character is sufficient to change pedophilia into homosexual relations." In fact, the full quotation from Donahue is as follows "Eighty percent of the victims of priestly abuse are male AND MOST OF THEM ARE POST PUBESCENT" (emphasis added). By failing to note that Donahue constructs his argument using both gender and sexual maturation as data points, and by deliberately suggesting that Donahue uses only gender as a data point, S-A abuses both his readers and his position as a contributor to On Faith. Regardless of whether the Post's readers agree or disagree with Donahue's arguments they deserve to have those arguments fairly represented and then debated in full rather than suffering through S-A's sophistic attack on straw man argument of his own devising. S-A owes Donahue and the readers of On Faith an apology for his sophistry.
Posted by: Publius30 | July 22, 2010 1:16 PM
PUBLIUS30
What Donahue meant and still means is that it is a homosexual problem. He lies as most are post pubescent. Most were pre., get the fact right. There is only one line to draw, most were elementary students, how disgusting.
You missed the point. Looks you work hard at interpreting, the rest of us have heard Donahue enough times to catch his deflections and know what he is saying.
Children's lost lives, destroyed. That is the real issue. Your post was more deflection of pure rubbish.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 1:30 PM
BTW DANIELINTHELIONSDEN
When they claim catholic bashing they are referring to to victims, their families and those who care for the sanctity of human life. In fact it must be catholics and good people who bash catholics. They crucify the victims. Sure places the victims, families and those who care for the sanctity of human life in good company.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 1:18 PM
Petelafond - I understand that Donahue contends that the Church has a homosexual problem. My point is that Stevens-Arroyo (S-A) abuses the trust of his readers by utterly mischaracterizing the nature of the argument that Donahue uses in making his point. It is S-A and not I who actively deflects inconvenient facts. If Donahue actually were to argue, as S-A erroneously contends that he does, that the fact that most instances of reported abuse involve males-on-males is proof of a homosexual problem, then we wouldn't need S-A to tell us that Donahue's argument is silly because the silliness would be self evident. Donahue argues (in simplified form) that most cases of reported abuse involve males-on-males, and most of the male-on-male cases involve post-pubescent boys. These facts do not diminish the horrible nature of the abuse or excuse the Church's slow response to the abuse - let me repeat that I do not accept these facts as excuses for the how the Church addressed reported abuse. These facts, taken together, however, point to the possibility of a problem of predatory homosexual behavior that is dramatically larger than the problem of pedophilia. Both problems must be addressed by the Church.
Posted by: Publius30 | July 22, 2010 1:53 PM
SARATX2 - Your assertion in your first paragraph that "[h]omosexuality takes place only between two consenting adults" beggars belief! It is like saying that heterosexuality takes place only between two consenting adults, which, if true, would mean that by definition there is no such thing as heterosexual rape - a preposterous assertion! While homosexual acts can occur between consenting adults, they can also occur between consenting adults and minors (who by definition cannot give informed consent). The latter instances are properly referred to as homosexual rape because they involves homosexual acts. Neither Donahue, nor the Church make assertions about the sexuality of victims of abuse being a contributing factor in acts of abuse, and Donahue's argument that most instances of Church abuse involve homosexual predators has nothing to do with the sexual inclination of the victims of abuse.
Posted by: Publius30 | July 22, 2010 4:07 PM
Quite simple, PUBLIUS30
Real data is not out. The vast majority of cases have yet to be disclosed to; Boston Globe, John Jay ,... How are they to speculate and call it proof? They have little knowledge of the vast majority of victims. However, if you were engaged with victims, you would know the truth - over 60% are of pedophilia.
Call John Jay, they will tell you their data is grossly in error. After all, they were following the guidelines of the US Bishops who paid them.
Then again, how deceitful of the RCC; Pay Johyn jay, give them parameters, so that it looks as if it is an official report by some expert resource. Not what the report was meant for, John Jay will tell you.
Another fact, one bishop in NY protected a pedo and bragged how he had no pedos in his diocese. he denied a victim who is now 56 years old. Just two years ago, the priest he protected, sexually abused a little girl. Another bishop in upsate NY is a violent pedo, he is surrounded by pedos who acted as he did. A few are around children today. He gave John Jay a number of 15 priests of which only one was a pedo, without names of course. Victims in his diocese accuse him and almost 60 other priests.
You see, none of those are reported. NY state does not allow victims to come forward because the bishops lobby to stop laws that would enable them to come forward. Most don't trust the RCC, rightfully so, and will not go there.
Tell me know, how can all the statistics you claim by all those people and entities be true?
You people twist what ever data you can to mold it to your advantage.
Meanwhile, the truth has its hands tied behind its back because of the power and money of the RCC.
No one will find out the truth until cases are allowed to come forward. Any claim you or anyone else makes to the contrary mean zero.
These many priests are around children today and as long as the RCC owns the politicians, nothing changes - not even the truth exposed.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 3:53 PM
Jesus, Joseph and Mary, of course priests who molest little boys are homosexual.
Doe that make the crime less heinous or the victims culpable?
Does that make all gays pedophiles or hebephiles or what ever words Catholics want to mince to divert the focus in their blind defense of these atrocities?
I wasn't a practicing homosexual at age 14 and never even thought about it much until a priest groomed and raped me. Then I had no doubt it existed and what it was. You Catholics are one sick religion if you believe 11 year old boys seduce priests.
What is wrong with you people? Are you so devoted to your church that you would destroy even more victims to protect its image? You make Di Vinci code and Angels and Demons sound less like fiction with every post.
Posted by: areyousaying | July 22, 2010 4:16 PM
Unless you are working directly with victims, not through a church, you will have no ideas of the volumes of abuse and that over 60% are of pedophilia. How would anyone know unless they had direct data. The RCC's money and power stop the cases from coming forward. The VICTIMS have no voice, they sure know how old they were when abused.
Now the gay crap.. Pedos need access to children. How do they get it? Well in the RCC, boys are alter boys, boys go to events with priests and boys are invited to the rectory. Girls were not allowed to be alter girls, most responsible parents would not allow a small girl to be with a man, a priests or not, and girls were not allowed to go to the rectory alone.
Boys were more available to pedos. Pedos don't care - boy or girl, just look at national statistics. If girls were not as available and boys were a super easy target, guess who the pedo gets.
Even in spite of all that, girls were sll abused by pedos. In fact one of the largest victims group is predominately female victims.
For resonable people here, I hope you can now see that real data is simply not available with regard to clergy abuse. Gays want a partner to enjoy ssseeexxx with them. Pedos control their victim, they don't look for enjoyment from the victim.
Until laws change, victims are denied the truth - they were rrraaappeeddd and ssssoooddddooommized by pedos. The RCC won't let this happen because they buy politicians to stopping laws that would.
Quit deflecting and harming victims with deflections of "gays did it", "most were not pedos". Your deflections cause damage to those already damaged. Quit being selfish. There are more victims who were abused by pedos, not gays.
If you want the truth, call your lawmakers and demand laws change, help the victims - don't continue to harm them with your selfishness and fabrications.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 5:29 PM
Expect if there are any good priests, most have either left or were demoted, especially if they spoke out.
Most bishops knew of the volumes of abuse. Most cardinals knew of the abuse. Even Ratzinger when confronted with the Boys Town episode - selling boys for sssseeeex, tried to deflect back in the 90's. He made a comment to a Nebraska senator and others that there are far more acts of pedophilia in the US than any other country. He never knew this stuff would have blown up. Today he acks as if he is just learning about it.
Keep in mind, bishops, cardinals, popes and priests have dirt on each other. Not likely a bishop would make it if clean, the others would worry.
Look at the deflections, look at how they continue to deny victims, look at how they twist words and meanings, look at how they blame, look at how the pope says just enough without going too far,.. look at it all - a filthy organization that has covered up child abuse. How sick. Most people can now see the truth.
Posted by: petelafond | July 22, 2010 5:52 PM
elizdelphi
The only problem there is in being gay is all the people who hate gay people for being gay; that's the problem.
Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with being gay. It is not bad; it is not wrong; it is not a sin; that is a false doctrine promoted by the Catholich Church, the Baptist Church, the Mormon Church, most other Protestant Churches, and Islam.
The homophobia of the Catholic Church and in fact its general sex-phobia is what is at the root of so much of its problems. Praying that gay people can turn straight and marry someone of the opposite sex is misguided.
After all, would a heterosexual person be happy married to a gay person? Why don't you test out your theory and marry one to see?
The attraction that gay men feel for other men is no more powerful nor depraved than the attraction that straight men feel for women. So there is nothing intrinsic in being gay that makes it a state of being any different than being straight; the Catholic phrase "intrinsically" disordered, is particularly insulting, considering the source.
What the Catholic Church teaches and promotes on this is nothing more than neurotic dysfunction, which is not helpful to anyone.
Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | July 22, 2010 7:13 PM
Elizdelhi
In a previous post, you said, about gay people:
" ... some, after a period of chastity and healing, feel able to marry (someone of the opposite sex) ... "
If a gay person needs to be healed of their gayness, you are assuming that there is something wrong with them, to be healed. That is a false assumption.
What would you heal? How would you tinker with their psyche, their personality, their inner will, to get the gayness out of them? To do that, you would have to alter them radically. What if they do not want an outside force to alter them radically? What if they do not want a Priest to reach into their minds, and twist things around, so that they become a different person? To say that you love someone, and then to demand that transform into a different person is not love; it is personally destructive, and more like hate than love.
But the Catholic Church regards gay people as intrinsically disordered. That phrase was cleverly devised by a committee of theologians; it is a clever, tricky, and wiley phrase to isolate and persecute gay people.
To be instrinsically disordered is not a sin to repent and there can be no repentence or forgiveness. It is not an illness to be cured. It is not a psychiatric condition to be worked out.
Implicit in this phrase "intrinsic disorder" is that it is part of God's plan to create some people in this disordered state, and there is nothing that they can do about it, but wait for people like you to pray for them, which will in any event, not re-order their disordered state, since it is "intrinsic."
This is all poppy-cock. It is an incomplete, political resolution to a problem that the Catholic Church cannot understand, and cannot deal with. What good is a religion that cannot deal with reality?
You do not seem hostile, but you do seem very naive and misguided. A gay person in the Catholic Church is a tragedy. In an ideal world, such a person would get out of the Catholic Church and as far away from Catholic influence as possible. But often by the time a gay Catholic realizes this, a lot of the damage has already been done, which often cannot be undone.
Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | July 22, 2010 9:43 PM
IN REPLY TO (IRT)
AREYOUASKING
So you don’t think it’s a culture problem; it figures. Unfortunately, America is awash in the Sexual Revolution and the Church is caught in its ravenous net. However, the iconoclasts think you can have your cake and eat it too. The Church is the only one doing something about it. It's certainly not the iconoclast left wing; they're promoting it.
“Violence and pornography, which is a felony against the human spirit, are the atrocities of despair” Dr. Koop, former Surgeon General, explained, adding, “The people who commit them have an appetite for outrage. They devour what we cling to as civilized life.” And, they are devouring our public libraries, creating a “hostile environment” for normal women, children and men.
http://www.special-guests.com/reisman4.html
Reisman, J. (1990). Images of Children, Crime and Violence in Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler, U.S. Department of Justice, Grant No. 84-JN-AX-K007.
"It is time to identify what effect Alfred Kinsey, the father of the sexual revolution and sex education has had on the lives of so many.
"Since 1968, the ravages of divorce have severed more families each and every year than did maternal deaths in childbirth throughout the entire period from 1915 to 1998.
"The last 40 years have seen the percentage of persons living together as unrelated individuals increase from six to 16 percent of the general populace. By 1999 only 66 percent of the population lived in a married-couple family.
"In 1998 there were more than ten times as many women cohabiting as in 1960. In the year 2000, one in every three babies was born out of wedlock. The number of children living in single-parent families has more than doubled in the past three decades. And the list goes on.
"These facts are but the tip of the family-disintegration iceberg; obviously Kinsey does not merit all the blame, but his publications were influential and his disciples have been even more so.
"Kinsey promised "free sex" and "sex without consequences." Yet women and children have paid an exorbitant price tag, and the consequences are evident in the scourge of STDs, abortion, cohabitation, and disconnectedness.
"Since 1968, the ravages of divorce have severed more families each and every year than did maternal deaths in childbirth throughout the entire period from 1915 to 1998.
"We are fast approaching the point of no return with growing numbers of single-parent families. The restoration of marriage and family is no longer a luxury that would be nice; it is a necessity for the survival of American civil society. Thanks, Dr. Kinsey."
Posted by: TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ1 | July 22, 2010 10:07
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/catholicamerica/2010/07/no_pedophilia_crisis_says_dr_bill.html
posted by Paris Arrow @ Saturday, July 24, 2010
0 comments
